MOD POST: THIS SHOULDN'T BE NECESSARY EDITION

"For Sweden" (rallybeetle) 01/10/2014 at 12:58 • Filed to: Mod post

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If your post contains blatant racism, you will be nuked from orbit, or the closest alternative damage that the Swedes can inflict, which is still a lot.

CAR_IS_MI > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:01

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We got your six.

offroadkarter > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:02

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Oh, you mean this post?

no just kidding I won't show that image, we all know what he did

stuttgartobsessed > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:02

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I didn't know they made two stroke jets...

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:03

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Not to highjack this thread or anything, but the same goes for sexism, gaybashing and any other form of outright hate speech yes?

It's a "Porch-uh" > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:03

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I'll apologize for the MySpace link (they're still a thing?), but it's the only place I can find this entire clip.

https://myspace.com/113620280/vide…

area man > offroadkarter 01/10/2014 at 13:03

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I missed it! I wanna see!

The Swedish Bandit > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:03

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Death by daft politicians?

For Sweden > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 01/10/2014 at 13:04

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Outright hate speech, yes*

*I reserve the right to demand return of oil.

Party-vi > offroadkarter 01/10/2014 at 13:05

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If you want to share, put it on your private blog and link to it please - don't need any additional shit stirring.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:05

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That's a OK :)

Party-vi > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 01/10/2014 at 13:05

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Yes.

Minus porn, because I'd then have nothing to contribute.

Tom McParland > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:06

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SAAB 2 this is Ghost Rider...proceed with strike, will provide additional ordinance if needed.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:07

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I'll probably regret asking this, but... context? I just want to compare it to the clueless FP'er who went to great lengths to explain that "gay" is an acceptable equivalent for "shitty" while failing to understand that I didn't call him out because he said "brazil is gay", but because he used the word like that in the first place.

For Sweden > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 01/10/2014 at 13:08

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A certain now-nuked user asked how he could [racial slur]-ize a vehicle.

davedave1111 > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 01/10/2014 at 13:08

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Who has time for any of that shit while this exists?

505Turbeaux > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:09

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Just look at OPPO as being at a bar with your car loving buddies. He would have gotten his lights knocked out for saying it there. I would have reached through the internet and smacked him if I could have

CAR_IS_MI > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 01/10/2014 at 13:10

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...the same goes for sexism,...

Go tell that to Jezabel

For Sweden > The Swedish Bandit 01/10/2014 at 13:10

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Death by removing toy cars from schools*

*same thing

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > davedave1111 01/10/2014 at 13:11

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Good point :)

Sir Halffast > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:12

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What about constant over-politicization? Because that, combined with the sexism and gaybashing from certain quarters (don't even remember who now), is why I've reverted to semi-lurker status for the last year or so. Life got busy, and when it became un-busy, I just didn't have the patience for it anymore.

Gamecat235 > CAR_IS_MI 01/10/2014 at 13:13

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We don't moderate the front page, or other kinja spaces. We do moderate here.

We are an inclusive space. We aren't a "safe space" but everyone is welcome (until they aren't. On a case by case basis).

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > CAR_IS_MI 01/10/2014 at 13:15

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I have debated similar stuff on Jezebell actually (don't ask me how or why I ended up there) and it did not end in a shitstorm.

PS. the reason it did not end in a shitstorm COULD be because one of the mods there seem to think I'm a virgin bisexual Norwegian hot viking (I have NO clue why).

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:16

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Fed(oo=[][]=oo)uken > stuttgartobsessed 01/10/2014 at 13:16

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Maybe COTD.

davedave1111 > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 01/10/2014 at 13:18

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Someone used the 'n-word' in front of Americans. This is what they do every time that happens to show how not-racist-and-sorry-we-made-your-grandparents-slaves they are.

For Sweden > Sir Halffast 01/10/2014 at 13:19

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Over-politicization is not encouraged, but it won't get a user nuked unless their political views descend into hate speach; i.e. "Kill all members of the Whig Party!"

Sir Halffast > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:22

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Dammit. Those fucking Whigs. They're the worst. Never staying put when the wind blows, and getting in your eyes when the kids tug on it.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > davedave1111 01/10/2014 at 13:23

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Sounds fair to me when used as an insult or in negative light...

offroadkarter > Party-vi 01/10/2014 at 13:24

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I'm not going to stir up any hullabaloo

CAR_IS_MI > Gamecat235 01/10/2014 at 13:24

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I know. Just saying, lots of sexism going on in that realm.

Gamecat235 > davedave1111 01/10/2014 at 13:25

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Instead of dismissing this comment, I'm just going to point to the picture RIGHT ABOVE your comment.

CAR_IS_MI > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 01/10/2014 at 13:27

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COULD be because one of the mods there seem to think I'm a virgin bisexual Norwegian hot viking

Wait. You're not!

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:28

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Don't know if this is the right place to ask, but could a mod please explain to me the rationale behind porn posts on this site? Just wondering if there is a mission statement or set of policies somewhere that explains why an automotive enthusiast forum should be a gathering place for "NSFW" photo dumps when there are so many other places out there (30% of all internet traffic) where such things can be shared and appreciated? I'm not saying there should be a kind of "on topic" policy enforced, or that things like $skaycog's COTD awards are a problem, but a post that just contains a handful or a few dozen softcore gifs gathered from around the internet seems, you know, lame— dare I say, inappropriate— for what is nominally a car-related forum? What benefit is Oppo getting from these photo dumps vs. what it does overall to "the neighborhood?"

It seems that there is some kind of expectation that just labeling something NSFW automatically absolves one of civility or editorial responsibility. I understand policies are sometimes of the form, "we don't censor based on content except in these enumerated conditions...," but certainly it's possible for members of the community to speak up to the posters, right?

So, anyway, mods, what is the policy with porn dumps here?

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > CAR_IS_MI 01/10/2014 at 13:29

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Well.. I AM Norwegian :P

Gamecat235 > CAR_IS_MI 01/10/2014 at 13:30

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Understood, and I recognize that parts of Jezebel self-identify as feminist. Which is fine, it's their space, they do what they want with it.

davedave1111 > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 01/10/2014 at 13:31

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I'm not defending racism, just explaining why there's this huge reaction to a single mention in passing of a bad word. To them, it's totally taboo.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > davedave1111 01/10/2014 at 13:34

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Fair enough I guess, though the context in which it was used more than justifies the reaction.

PanchoVilleneuve ST > davedave1111 01/10/2014 at 13:36

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Those kooky Americans, thinking racism is bad!

davedave1111 > Gamecat235 01/10/2014 at 13:36

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I don't get what you're trying to say. Are you suggesting my comment was in some way racist?

davedave1111 > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 01/10/2014 at 13:37

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Not that I saw. Where I come from we'd just have edited it out and left it at that.

Gamecat235 > davedave1111 01/10/2014 at 13:41

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No. Only that it's really really shortsighted and doesn't take into account the fact that the word itself has too much negative connotation to be saved as a simple bastardized statement of coloration of a segment of the population.

Not accusing you of racism in the slightest, only overgeneralizing the reaction to the term.

davedave1111 > PanchoVilleneuve ST 01/10/2014 at 13:43

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Everyone thinks racism is bad. That's not the point here. The US treats the word as taboo - can't even talk about it, let alone reclaim it.

duurtlang > PanchoVilleneuve ST 01/10/2014 at 13:44

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I can't look into Davedave1111's mind, but I'm guessing he observes something similar as I do; while we all think racism is bad, different cultures have different taboo subjects/words/whatever that lead to extra sensitive reactions. Usually due to a long history. The n-word is wrong everywhere, but extra sensitive in the US due to the historical usage and thus connotation. I'm sure the Brits have words that they think are truly unforgivable while Americans merely consider it wrong and in poor taste.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > 505Turbeaux 01/10/2014 at 13:46

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And then we'd share a hearty laugh and a round of beers. I really like the cut of your jib!

davedave1111 > Gamecat235 01/10/2014 at 13:49

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I still have no idea what you're trying to say. To be quite clear, my point here was just to explain to a non-North-American the reasons for the otherwise baffling response - a cultural difference that isn't often mentioned. The word in question is totally taboo in the US, so we're now seeing cleansing/purification rituals. Rather fascinating from the anthropological perspective, really.

Incidentally, one of the common features of taboos is that those living under them aren't aware the taboo exists as such, because thinking about the taboo is also prohibited, or at least borderline enough to feel uncomfortable.

ScreenShot > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:52

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Make no mistake - gawker loves _all_ controversy as it brings clicks, so this seems a bit disingenuous, at best.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > 505Turbeaux 01/10/2014 at 13:52

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If he'd said that word at the pub I consider my second home, he'd not only gotten his lights knocked out, he'd even be banned for life.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > Tom McParland 01/10/2014 at 13:52

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God, I love F-14's

Tom McParland > V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! 01/10/2014 at 13:54

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As do we all...when I was little I wanted to be a pilot so I could fly an F-14. I didn't become a pilot, because I learned about 2 years later that fighter jets can crash. But I still love the F-14, sadly they are no longer in service :(

davedave1111 > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 13:55

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"The n-word is wrong everywhere"

Even that's not quite correct. There are parts of the world where it's been so totally reclaimed that you'd have trouble using it as a racist term - that wouldn't be the default assumption.

There are cultures, for example, who wouldn't hesitate a second to say that Eminem is a 'nigger', but would think you're quite mad if you suggested some middle class professional is one simply because he happens to have dark skin. They're not stupid, so of course they're aware of the link to skin colour in other cultures, but in those cultures the link has been lost.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:56

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Let me leave this here. Set a standard. Not a double standard.

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pauljones > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 13:57

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No, this certainly shouldn't be necessary. I also feel as if we've been through this before.

And, yet, someone does it anyways.

Thanks for coming to the rescue.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > Tom McParland 01/10/2014 at 13:58

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I live about 3 miles from the old Grumman plant in Bethpage. I need to get my keister over there and take some quality photos of the static display they have. It's been so miserable out that I just have to wait....

Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? > Tom McParland 01/10/2014 at 13:58

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That's ok...we still use the F-15!

For Sweden > ScreenShot 01/10/2014 at 13:58

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As I have no relationship with Gawker Media, that doesn't affect me.

Gamecat235 > davedave1111 01/10/2014 at 13:58

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Ah ha! Understood. *I'm* the overresponsive American. *sigh*. I guess stereotypes exist for a reason.

Generally I find it offensive for the reasons that it is commonly used to denigrate a classification of people. But I do understand exactly what you are saying. And I apologize for overreacting.

Sir Halffast > CAR_IS_MI 01/10/2014 at 13:58

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I got news for you. If you go on Jezebel and act like a contrarian ass because you think they're being sexist, then you're the sexist one. Act cool and actually attempt to participate, and things generally work out just fine.

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > 505Turbeaux 01/10/2014 at 14:00

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Good analogy, like being at a bar with your buddies. Just like when you're at a bar with your buddies and one of them unfurls a Hustler and starts wanking everyone just tells the bartender it's cool because you propped up a beer coaster with "NSFW" written on it and if anyone has a problem with it they need to chill; it's part of life man; we're all adults here; don't be such a prude.

For Sweden > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 01/10/2014 at 14:00

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If you think a Mod hasn't caught something, tell us, ideally before a week has passed.

Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? > ScreenShot 01/10/2014 at 14:00

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Gawker may not give a shit about racism because, like you said, it brings clicks. But this is Oppo. We try and have a least a few standards. Being racist is just not needed anyways.

CAR_IS_MI > Sir Halffast 01/10/2014 at 14:01

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It's hard not to take it as sexist some times when they write entire articles about how silly pathetic men are the only ones buying impractical vehicles and that's why women are SO much better...

505Turbeaux > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 01/10/2014 at 14:02

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omfg I am dying laughing here. Trying that tonight

Sir Halffast > CAR_IS_MI 01/10/2014 at 14:03

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But if you look at it as someone's opinion (even if it's a flawed opinion), accept it as a valid point of view given their personal history, and then engage them as a human being, then it makes a world of difference.

ScreenShot > Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? 01/10/2014 at 14:05

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Break please - the sign on the wall reminds all of you responsible that "any publicity is good and good publicity is even better". It's all about eyeballs and profit w/you wonks, so save me the holier than tho crap.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 14:06

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I'm not one to be overly politically correct. I believe in consequences, not censorship. If it were up to me, I would let the world see their ignorance and let them suffer backlash before banning them. Let it come up in google searches when future employers look up their name and usernames.

CAR_IS_MI > Sir Halffast 01/10/2014 at 14:13

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Are you an undercover Jezabel agent?

Let's just go hypothetical; if I posted an article completely based on my opinion that women are inferior and here is a list of 7 reasons why women should only be allowed in the kitchen and on their backs, would you reasonably expect ANY woman to respond in a reasonable manner? Would you expect anything less than me to be called 1000 names and told how much of a sexist pig I am?

I wouldn't.

So why should the inverse be expected?

Not trying to start a debate here on this as it is pointless. I generally ignore Jezabel, especially their overly-sexist stereotypical-male-bashing posts.

pauljones > duurtlang 01/10/2014 at 14:15

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Your interpretation is quite correct and very well explained. On the other hand, the initial comment made by davedave111 was in decidedly poor form.

pauljones > davedave1111 01/10/2014 at 14:16

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Your form is decidedly poor here. You can do better than that. Please do.

Sir Halffast > CAR_IS_MI 01/10/2014 at 14:17

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Dude, it's their forum. Why do you care what they do? Just don't go there if it bothers you so much. This isn't a fucking hard concept. And no, I'm not an undercover "Jezabel" agent. Read above. I'm a long-time Jalop who's reverted to lurking because I got sick of the bullshit that For Sweden and Laird Andy McBratile were talking about at the beginning of the thread.

Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? > ScreenShot 01/10/2014 at 14:19

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I am in no way being paid by Gawker. I'm just an Oppo lurker who started an Jalopnik but now doesn't really go there anymore. 'Tis a silly place. But back to the conversation, I can understand a company saying "Fuck it!" to morals just to make a buck, but as a human being who gets paid by someone who is not Gawker, I can say that it's bullshit that someone would resort to racism for a post. He didn't have to say what he did, there are plenty of other words he could have used. And as for the "Holier than tho crap", as you put it, I'm not saying I'm a better person that someone just because I won't resort to racism. I'm saying that it's not hard to use an appropriate word in a public manner.

davedave1111 > Gamecat235 01/10/2014 at 14:19

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"Generally I find it offensive for the reasons that it is commonly used to denigrate a classification of people."

Of course, and that's why we don't use it freely. But how commonly is commonly, these days? Real racists - the kind who'd deliberately use a slur as a slur - are thankfully pretty few and far between. I'm sure there are lots of grannies who mean no harm but have somehow fastened onto the worst possible word to use, and I guess we could count them in the offensive camp.

Set against that, there's a lot of usage of the word in various ways that can be lumped together under the heading of reclamation, whether that's gangster rappers calling each other by the term, or young middle-class affluent urbanites* making 'racist'/stereotype jokes with their friends, or even the use in cultures where it's completely lost any connection with skin colour.

I'd hazard a guess that in fact the racist usage isn't 'common' anymore. Thankfully.

[*One irony here is that's spot on Jalopnik's core demographic. The chances are that most of us engage in that form of reclamation/ridicule of racist stereotypes. Not in public, though...]

pauljones > ScreenShot 01/10/2014 at 14:21

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Make no mistake - Gawker owns Oppositelock.

However - and make no mistake about this either - Gawker rarely has any hand in what goes on here. This is an offtopic forum for users, and while it may ultimately belong to Gawker, the ability to monitor the blog and what occurs here was granted to a handful of commenters tasked with making this a positive place for everyone.

davedave1111 > pauljones 01/10/2014 at 14:21

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You're right. I did do better than that, if you read my other comments in this thread. I tried to describe the behaviour humorously, without much success, rather than just calling it what it is: a taboo.

pauljones > Sir Halffast 01/10/2014 at 14:23

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This, times a thousand. In fact, I think I'll share this to Oppo Mainpage.

Sir Halffast > pauljones 01/10/2014 at 14:25

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Thank you sir. Should have shared (in my humble opinion) the later responses though, because I explain more...

CAR_IS_MI > Sir Halffast 01/10/2014 at 14:27

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Sorry bro, did'nt mean to push your buttons that hard. And as you will see in my last sentence on my prior post, I do ignore Jezabel most of the time, and as you haven't been around much you may not know I used to be 05sonic3vale, also a long time Jalop and Opponaut, who also has a penchant for pushing buttons. especially big red 'do not push' buttons.

getchapopcorn > CAR_IS_MI 01/10/2014 at 14:28

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Or, you know, about how women just won't/don't want to date short guys (something people can't change) and also write articles about its ridiculous for us to want women who aren't fat (something that CAN be changed).

Sir Halffast > getchapopcorn 01/10/2014 at 14:29

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Fucking sigh.

Sir Halffast > pauljones 01/10/2014 at 14:30

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Here's the full thread...

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/sorry-bro-didn…

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CalzoneGolem > Sir Halffast 01/10/2014 at 14:30

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I've had nothing but positive interactions when I've gone to Jezebel. That being said, I don't get over there very often.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > CAR_IS_MI 01/10/2014 at 14:31

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Thank you.

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duurtlang > pauljones 01/10/2014 at 14:31

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I merely tried to defuse the situation, as my interpretation of his words was that he meant well but worded it crudely, and due to that wording combined with the cultural differences I explained before was misunderstood.

I do interpret a lot these days...

CAR_IS_MI > Sir Halffast 01/10/2014 at 14:33

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This should get interesting.

Sir Halffast > CAR_IS_MI 01/10/2014 at 14:35

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But it should be the good sort of interesting if folks take it in the right vein...

CAR_IS_MI > Sir Halffast 01/10/2014 at 14:40

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Now don't misunderstand me. I am all for freedom of speech and equality. I just think its a two way street. If you post something sexist / racist / otherwise ignorant, you can not reasonably expect me to not come in and say "you're sexist / racist / otherwise ignorant".

Intolerance is intolerable...

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > Sir Halffast 01/10/2014 at 14:42

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Had I known that this would escalate into a full blown discussion, I'd've never made that post in the first place. That said, you seem to handle this rather well. Good job mate :)

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > Sir Halffast 01/10/2014 at 14:45

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Ignoring problems does not fix them. Calling them out does.

Sir Halffast > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 01/10/2014 at 14:46

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Thank you for making it. I've made it several times in the past and it's been buried because MANLY MEN.

Sir Halffast > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 01/10/2014 at 14:46

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That's why I'm calling you out.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 14:46

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Oil, you say?

StoneCold > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 14:49

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Edit: Never mind

Sir Halffast > CAR_IS_MI 01/10/2014 at 14:49

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Yes, but you're coming at this from the perspective of a (presumably) white male. Jezebel was conceived, and is still conceived, as a "safe place" for women, many of whom have had traumatic experiences with sexual assault, abuse, etc. You have to understand that the perspectives that some of them carry are very much molded by their past, and it's not your position to waltz in and tell them they're wrong. Yes, it's a public forum, but it's still THEIR public forum. If you actually take time to try and understand the comments, you'll see that there's frequently real pain, and I mean support-group level pain. It's a website that is "for women." It says so in the title. If you're not "women" then you have to be mindful of that. Just like you expect to find out about cars on Jalopnik. Different audiences, different expectations, and everyone needs to be adults and adjust.

getchapopcorn > Sir Halffast 01/10/2014 at 14:51

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Language, brosephus. Cálmate.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > Sir Halffast 01/10/2014 at 14:52

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It's not burried this time, I'm happy about that. But I feel like it should not be necesarry to make a post like that in the first place..

Oppo should be a place for any man/woman/entity that likes cars and stuff related to cars.

Sir Halffast > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 01/10/2014 at 14:57

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Agreed. Not long ago it wasn't 99.9 percent men. Would be nice to have the additional perspectives again, but there's not a lot playing nicely.

YSI-what can brown do for you > For Sweden 01/10/2014 at 14:59

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Those damn people, being different than me! How dare they do this! They should have chose my race, cause it is better than their race. Makes sense right? No! Well then fuck you!

CAR_IS_MI > Sir Halffast 01/10/2014 at 14:59

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And I am 100% behind the posts about how a woman was abused and steps to take, and what have you. I have no quarrel with any of that, and would gladly put my own perspectives aside for a woman who had a traumatic experience like that.

I take issue with the blatant stereotypical BS, which happens from time to time and is posted as a main article by a writer for Jezabel. Usually filled with ill-conceived notions and generalizations of 'all men'. Quite often to which I have responded with a response along the lines of "you know, not all men..." which either gets dismissed or receives copious amounts of hate("oh BS, you know you all are the same, blah blah blah").

Thats my take away from it. If it was just a handful of commenters making biased remarks it would be no big deal, but when the antagonizer is the author, and the participants refuse to have a reasonable discussion, it just looks bad.

And maybe it's just my few experiences with that section, maybe its the time of day I have gone. No clue. Just my .02

StoneCold > The Swedish Bandit 01/10/2014 at 14:59

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I really want to make a "Death by Taft politicians" joke but a fat joke that would not be appropriate in a thread on correctness >_>

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > davedave1111 01/10/2014 at 15:01

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NSFW. NOT SAFE FOR WORK!

If you don't want to hear the word, don't follow my instructions at the end. It's not hateful, but like you said, the word really brings out some strongly negative reactions. It's a light way to open up the discussion of the word. It's a speech about the origins of the word, its use in popular culture, and to an extent how audacious the oversensitivity to it is. Wait until you get home, put on some headphones, go to youtube, and search for "marlita hill after dinner speech", click on the first result.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > Sir Halffast 01/10/2014 at 15:02

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On what?